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Zach wrote:

Hi, guys —

  • Can I be a Catholic and still be pro-choice?

I find that abortion is the mother's choice alone and no one else's.

Now, if I were a female, I would probably never have an abortion, if that makes it any better,
but yes, I do think it's OK to abort fetuses, or as Catholics like to say, "murder children".

I am afraid that I will never ever change my opinions on abortion or gay marriage. I also find euthanasia to be something that is unarguable — everyone has the right to die.

I am going to RCIA in the fall and I am bringing these liberalistic views to the table.

  • What kind of reactions am I going to get?
  • Can I stay in my RCIA classes if I express these viewpoints?

Thank you!

Zach

  { Can I be a Catholic and still be pro-choice and pro same-sex marriage? }

Paul replied:

Dear Zach,

Thanks for the question.

These views you speak of are not only "liberalistic", they're anti-God. One makes themselves objectively an enemy:

  • of God
  • of truth, and
  • of humanity when condoning or promoting:
    • prenatal homicide (abortion)
    • sodomy (homosexual acts), or
    • the voluntary killing of the sick or elderly (euthanasia).

That is the case whether one is Catholic, or not.

The Church has always condemned the act of abortion, as is found in the Didache, the first century A.D. Catechism, as well as euthanasia and homosexual activity. They were also condemned in
pre-Christian pagan societies, most of which had a respect for natural law. The ancient Hippocratic oath also rejects voluntary killing or harming of both the preborn and the born. Homosexual acts were known to be perverted and depraved in:

  • the Old Testament
  • the New Testament, and
  • throughout most civilized societies.

I suggest that you do whatever it takes, intellectually and spiritually, to recognize how anti-life and objectively evil these stands are. Begin with sincerely, asking God to enlighten your mind after softening your heart to see and submit to the truth.

Praying a daily Rosary could also be a great help.

Peace,

Paul

Zach replied:

Paul,

  • What will the Catholics think when I present these views at my RCIA classes in the fall?
  • Will there be conflict and debate?

Zach

Paul replied:

Zach,

It depends on the Catholics. If they believe in God's law for humanity, they may be afraid for your salvation [and|or] they might wonder why you would want to become Catholic, if you reject natural law and Church teaching; you would have to ask them. A more important question is:

  • What does God think?

Paul

Mary Ann replied:

Zach —

It can never be a morally good choice to kill an innocent human being. Also, euthanasia is not a "right to die" issue: euthanasia is the killing of a suffering person without their consent. You may be thinking of assisted suicide, which is expressed as a right to die issue, but which is not.
It also is murder.

You cannot be Catholic without accepting the Church's fundamental teachings. You may find many so-called members of the Church who share your views, and they may let you stay in RCIA, but the fact is, that you would be in heresy and not a believing member of the faithful who make up the Church built on the rock of Peter.

In fact, until a few years ago, your positions would have put you outside of any Christian denomination and a few years before that, your views would have put you outside of all civilized society, except, of course, for the latter days of ancient Rome.

You said:

  • What will the Catholics think when I present these views at my RCIA classes in the fall?
  • Will there be conflict and debate?

Probably not, as many Catholics are soft on these issues.

Mary Ann

Mike replied:

Dear Zach,

There isn't much more I can say that my colleagues haven't already covered.

I'm just wondering:

  • Why would you want to join a Church you don't believe in?

Even if you receive poor RCIA instruction and learn nothing about Catholic teachings, based on what we have said, you now know what the Church believes and teaches. We have been around for 2,000 years and our teachings on abortion and homosexuality are obvious to anyone who is age 7.

An uncatechized Catholic, I can understand, but why make yourself one in faith and in body,
(via the Eucharist), if you don't believe, what we believe.

I don't think you have thought these issues through. At our Particular Judgment, there will be only two people:

The Lord Jesus Christ and YOU.

I don't get it.

Final question:

  • What choice does the unborn female fetus have?

Feminist groups refuse to answer this question. You see whether the fetus is male or female:

pro-choice is anti-choice.

Some will say:

"It's the mother's baby, because it's her body and no one has a right to tell her what to do with her own body."

The problem with this answer is that it denies the mortality of the body. Of course, it's not her body, just as my body, isn't mine. Our bodies come from our Creator, Our Lord Jesus Christ in a partnership with the father and mother. For those who think only a man and woman are needed to give birth to a new child, I recommend they talk to the legions of couples trying to have a child but who can't.

The new child doesn't have a chance (choice) in the mother's womb unless the mother is pro-life.

We have to turn this issue from the emotional one to a rationale, helpful one.

Before birth:

Any woman with an unexpected pregnancy should know that any Catholic diocese can help and assist her in:

  • delivering her child
  • providing nutritional, physical and financial support, and
  • help her to support herself and her family.
After birth:

Though I live in one of the most liberal Commonwealths among the fifty United States, even we have a law that allows a woman with an unexpected pregnancy,
to anonymously drop their new born infant off at any fire station.

Mike

Zach replied:

Mike,

The Church seems interesting to me, but it's not the only thing I am currently researching.

Out of everything that I've studied, I find that Islam seems to be the most realistic and truthful, regardless of what any Christian or Catholic tells me. Also, with Christianity, I find that the Methodist Church and the (CJCLDS) Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints are quite intriguing as well.

You see, the Catholic Church is one of many options, but I am certainly confident that the Methodist Church or the CJCLDS would be better for me, since they are both, in fact, more
"laid back" so-to-speak with social views. Although the Mormons view homosexuality as a bad thing, like the Catholics, many of them are extremely tolerant towards abortion and euthanasia. Yes, some are a little more conservative, but others are very liberal in their political and social views; the same can be said with the Methodist Church.

You can also find plenty of liberal Catholics in the Catholic Church, as I have several friends who are pro-choice and have even supported gay marriage during protest days, against those who want to keep gay marriage on the ground. Now, you can argue that these Catholics are nothing but Catholics in Name Only (CINO's), but I beg to differ.

Anyone who is willing:

  • to believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ
  • is capable of reciting the Nicene Creed during the Holy Mass, and
  • believes that God sent his begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to save humanity, along with:
    • participating in the community
    • giving up something during Lent, and
    • following a majority of the Church's rules

is a Catholic in my book and in the books of many others.

I don't see how the social views matter. If I do become a Catholic, I am not going to change what
I believe about:

  • abortion
  • gays (gay marriage, gay sex, etc.)
  • euthanasia
  • contraception, or
  • masturbation

as I see no problem with any of these issues.

If I come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the most logical, out of all the others to me personally, I will consider converting after finishing my RCIA classes but until then, I will keep studying. If I am willing to believe all of the things that I listed above, including other minor things that Catholics should believe, I will become a liberal Catholic, or a "cafeteria Catholic."

  • You don't think it's possible?

Well, look around. There are "cafeteria Catholic's" everywhere.

Zach

Mike replied:

Dear Zach,

Like many people, you have fallen prey to what we call Moral Relativism.

This posting below give one example within it:

You want a Church that fits your moral values, not a Church that is a truth-telling Church.
You are basically playing personal pope, except you have no authority to decide what is good and what is bad; this is what Moral Relativism is: every individual on the face of the earth deciding their own moral values.

If I feel like shooting you with a gun is morally fine, I can do it. When a police officer comes to arrest me, I'll just tell him:

"Hello, officer. You don't have to arrest me, because shooting Zach is within my morally acceptable values. Have a nice day."

This is the crazy, insane nature of Moral Relativism. The Catholic view is the Church is present in the world, to change us, not the other way around.

Non-Catholics should join the Church because they believe it will tell them the truth on what is best for them and their salvation, even though some of the teachings, like on concupiscence, may be hard to accept because of our fallen nature. Even I struggle in this area, but I trust the Church because of Her Founder! Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, consubstantial (of one substance) with the Father.

  • The CJCLDS does not believe Jesus Christ is God; they believe Jesus was Satan's soul mate.
  • Islamic religions do not respect free will of their own people. This is why a Muslim who converts to another religion is killed. (e.g. the recent Catholic martyr in Pakistan.)
  • As far as Catholics go, do you thing it is fair to judge a faith, based on members that don't practice it?
  • If you lived back in 33 AD. would you trust what Judas said, or what Andrew said?

I would rephrase one of your last statements to say:

  • You don't think it's possible?

Well, look around. There are Judas Catholic's everywhere.

  • Just because there are Judas Catholics everywhere, does that mean we should follow
    the 90 percent, or discern the 10 percent?

None of us can force you to do anything you don't want to do. We give advice to help you understand why the Church teaches, what she does. If you don't believe the Church:

  • is a truth-telling Church that was founded by Jesus Christ, True God and True Man for our salvation and the salvation of all men

you shouldn't join.

  • Why would you base your salvation on someone else's bad behavior?

I just don't get it.

Mike

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