Hi Harold,

Thank you for the question. The homosexual molesters and child molesters really have forfeited the title of father, and after due process, the Church is stripping them of that title.

Do you call your father a father? I am sure you do. The earliest apostles referred to themselves as fathers. And so did the next generation. My learned colleagues will supply you with citations. Christ was speaking in a common Semitic way. Sarcasm is a common American way of speaking in English. You might say, "Don't Daddy me!" in anger to a child who was being sassy. Well, absolute active forms of speech are semitic. "Hate your father and mother" , for instance, when what He intends is to not prefer them above God.

As for bowing, Cornelius as a Roman thought Peter was a god of some sort. We bend the knee (we don't have to) to bishops as a gesture of respect. To the Pope we do it as respect for his office as Vicar of Christ. The gesture itself is a medieval feudal one indicating respect and submission, not a Roman one indicating idolatry. Gestures change meaning over time and cultures. For example, does a man commit idolatry when he kneels to ask the hand of a woman?

As for twisting the Word of God: Catholics have relied on the eyewitnesses (the Apostles) and their successors for understanding the Word of God. These are they to whom Christ promised the Holy Spirit who would bring them into all truth and open the Scriptures to them as He did on the road to Emmaus.

I know you are motivated by concern for the salvation of Catholics, and by a desire to protect the holiness of God and of Scripture. For that, I thank you and I respect you. To avoid sterile polemics, you might read the Catholic Catechism along with the Scriptures it cites. Mike can send you one for free. Also, you can go to The Journey Home's web page to see what other fundamentalist Christians learned about these things.

God bless.

Mary Ann

Hi Harold,

With respect to your question, what Mary Ann pointed out was quite correct. You would never conclude that you cannot call the man who raised you "Father" because of what Jesus said here. Jesus is using hyperbole. He also forbids terms such as "teacher", but I've never heard anyone zealous to deny the title "Father" to priests be equally zealous to deny the title "Teacher" to teachers.

The point of this passage is do not treat men with the honor and worship due to God alone.

This point is brought out by other places in the New Testament when the title "Father" is used:

"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (1 Corinthians 4:15)

"To this he replied: 'Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran.'" (Acts 7:2)

"Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense." (Acts 22:1)

Speaking of Abraham, ***Romans 4:17 says:

'*As it is written: "I have made you a *father* of many nations." He is our *father* in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.'

"For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory." (1 Thes 2:11-12)

A good way to understand this is to go to Ephesians 3:14-15, which says, "For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth derives its name." God the Father is the pattern and source of all fatherhood. When fatherhood is rightly ordered to the prerogatives of God the Father, it is good. When it attempts to usurp its source, it is bad. That latter case is what Jesus was talking about, but by no means does it exclude all senses of fatherhood, as this passage makes clear.

An even better answer to your question may be found from the Catholic Answers web site:

• <Call No Man "Father"?>

Do check it out.

Later Eric followed-up:

Incidentally, on bowing, there are lots of instances in Scripture when men bow to one another and it is legitimate. It was a common form of reverence in the Middle East.

The exact same Hebrew phraseology used in first commandment in Exodus is used by righteous Isaac in speaking to Jacob in Genesis 27:29, "May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you."

1 Kings 1:16f: "Bathsheba bowed low and knelt before the king. 'What is it you want?' the king asked." No rebuke from David.

1 Kings 1:31: "Then Bathsheba bowed low with her face to the ground and, kneeling before the king, said, "May my lord King David live forever!"

1 Sam 24:8: "Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, 'My Lord and king!' When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground."

1 Sam 25:23: "When Abigal saw David, she quickly got off her donkey and bowed down before David with her face to the ground. She fell at his feet. . ."
Again in v. 41.

1 Sam 28:14: "Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground."

2 Sam 9:6-8: "When Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he bowed down to pay him honor. David said, 'Mephibosheth! . . .
Don't
be afraid, for I will surely show you kindness . . .' Mephibosheth bowed down and said, 'What is your servant, that you should notice a dead dog like me?'"

2 Sam 14:33: "Then the king summoned Absalom, and he came in and bowed down with his face to the ground before the king. And the king kissed Absalom."

2 Sam 18:28: "Then Ahimaaz called out to the king, 'All is well!' He bowed down before the king [David] with his face to the ground . . ."

2 Sam 22:40, in David's song of praise to the Lord: "You made my adversaries bow at my feet." Also Psalm 18:39.

1 King 1:22f: "While she was still speaking with the king, Nathan the prophet arrived. And they told the king, 'Nathan the prophet is here.' So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground." Nathan, the prophet, bowing to King David! What blasphemy! ;-) (cf. ex 34:14)

1 Kings 2:19: "When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne."

1 Kings 18:7: "As Obadiah was walking along, Elijah met him. Obadiah recognized him, bowed down to the ground, and said, 'Is it really you, my lord Elijah?'"
v. 3 says, "(Obadiah was a devout believer in the Lord...)"

2 Kings 2:15: "The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, 'The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.' ANd they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him."

Also see 2 Sam 15:5, 2 Sam 24:20, 1 Kings 1:53, 2 Kings 4:37, 1 Ch 21:21.

With respect to your comment about Peter correcting Cornelius's bowing, this is not always the case when people bow down to holy men in Scripture. Cf. Gen 19:1, Num 22:31 for starters. Note that in Revelation 22:8, it explicitly says that John "fell down to worship at the feet of the angel." The angel rebuked him, "Worship God!" Thus it was the worship he was objecting to; now the bowing. As a matter of fact, my concordance and my online KJV do not find any occurrences of people bowing to angels and being rebuked simply for bowing.

On a number of occasions in the Old testament, you find people bowing down to one another, even prophets to kings or people to prophets, without anyone indicating that something is wrong. Bowing in Eastern culture is a form of honor, and not exclusively associated with worship. This is evident because very frequently, when the Scriptures speak of bowing down in worship to a deity, it says explicitly, "so and so bowed down and worshiped." But in other places, when people bow down to other people in a non-worship context, it simply says that they bowed down. Thus worship is not inherent in bowing. Cf. Ge 24:26, 24:48, Ex 4:31, 12:27, 32:8, 34:8, Dt 29:26, 1 Ki 1:47, 2 Ki 21:3, 21:21, 2Ch 25:14, 29:28, 29:30, 33:3, Ne 8:6, Mt 2:11, and a number of other places.

So it is simplistic to point to one Scripture where someone is rebuked for bowing and draw the conclusion that bowing is always and everywhere and for every reason forbidden.

Hope this helps,

Eric

Not to mention the fact that just about every kid that's gone to the Protestant Vacation Bible School learns the song "Father Abraham".

John

Hi Harold,

I've read your initial question along with the answers from my colleagues.

I read your reply to me and could not find any question in what you said.

It appears that, like MANY outside the Catholic Church as well as some inside the Church, you have been greatly misinformed about:

Who Jesus Christ is?
What he established on St. Peter: see Matthew 16:13-20 and 1 Tim 3:15
What the Church is and whose Church it is? (Jesus')

I hope and pray that you do not fall into the non-Christian Believer category.
You can read the commentary on my web site below:

http://www.askacatholic.com/_WhatsNew/myfavorites/non-ChristianBeliever.cfm

Mary Ann is correct. I do send out FREE Catechisms of the Catholic Church to Protestants, Jews and Muslims, but only to those who are OPEN-MINDED and REALLY open to learning what and why Catholic's believe what we do.

If you are not open to the real view of what Catholics really believe, it would be a waste of money to send you a Catechism, that you would probably use as toilet paper.

Now to addressing the issues:

In your reply you said:
You answered the first part of my question and not biblically.

My friend Eric DID:

"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel."
(1 Corinthians 4:15)

"For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth derives its name."
(Ephesians 3:14-15)

PLUS:

Jesus Our Lord did not write any Bibles while he was on earth. Neither did he command that his followers read the Bible. He couldn't have because the books of the Bible were not know until 393-397AD! and Our Lord ascended into Heaven in 33AD!

Also remember NO WHERE in the Bible, does it say, "The Bible alone is the sole guide to faith."

The Holy Bible was written by Catholics and their ancestors, for Catholics, for use in the Catholic Church. That is just history!

The hatred in your e-mail, toward the Catholic Church and the HOLY Father can only come from people who:

• hate the Church
• don't know the whole story about the Church or
• from people who have been hurt by bad examples in the Church

If the hatred in your e-mail comes from this last reason, remember, we have no control over another person's free will. I can't control Mary Ann's free will nor can I control Eric or John's free will.

There are bad people in most every organization, but that doesn't make the whole organization necessarily bad. Just because some seminaries are poorly run with the result being some priests becoming pedophiles, doesn't mean ALL priests in the Catholic Church are pedophiles. Most priests in the Church are HOLY priests.

You just won't hear about them on the 6:00pm news :)

If your hatred comes from what you have learned from friends, I would find new friends!!

I will pray for you!

Why? Because TWJWD: That's What Jesus Would Do!

Mike