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Mike Humphrey wrote:

Hi, guys —

I've been dialoguing with a catholic who has dissented from the Church by breaking off to the right. She is a member of the third order of the Society of St. Pius X, a schismatic society.

I've taken the long dialogue I had with her and I have pulled out the major arguments she had.
It comes with the usual dissenting non-Catholic opinions:

  1. Vatican II was merely a Pastoral Council with the exception of Lumen Gentium, which restated the things already stated in previous Councils.
  2. The Vatican II documents were hijacked from the bishops with the Petri.
  3. The Masons and communists subverted Vatican II.
  4. The bishops have made the Catholic Church bow down to the Protestants.
  5. Pope Paul VI did not have a right to create a new Mass, therefore I cannot accept that the Novus Ordo is a valid Mass. It is so similar to a Protestant service.
  6. John Paul II, although we prayed for him unceasingly, was a globalist, and he could not make one decision to stop any of the abuse that occurred on his watch, like:
    • the Assisi mess (with an earthquake occurring right afterward)
    • kissing the Koran
    • meeting with the Jews, etc.
  7. This piece of junk you call a Catechism of the Catholic Church is full of flaws.

She also went on to say when Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI were dying, they admitted that they messed up and asked:

  • Why did Pope Paul VI say that the "Smoke of Satan has entered the Church." if he was so sure he was correct in changing the Mass?

She also stated:

  • Have you read the book by Cardinal Ottaviani regarding the Novus Ordo that was presented to Paul VI? — There were serious errors in the Novus Ordo that still exist today.

I've never read the Ottaviani Intervention and would like an opinion on it.


  { Can you address the Ottaviani Intervention and these arguments from a dissenting Catholic? }

Richard replied:

Hi Mike,

The "Ottaviani intervention" was a long essay with concerns about the revised Mass, and many of the objections are reasonable, but none are so severe as to leave its validity in doubt.

If I remember right, most of it was written by a Dominican named Fr. Guerard des Lauriers, with Cardinal Ottaviani writing a cover letter. Cardinal Ottaviani himself later indicated that he was satisfied with the assurance he received from Pope Paul VI, about the proper interpretation of the revised rite.

The text of the "intervention" is probably on the Internet.

— RC

Mary Ann replied:

Hi Mike,

All but the 5th and 7th points in the list could be true and be held by a faithful Catholic, but saying:

  • the Novus Ordo is not valid, when it is the Church who determines what is a valid rite, and
  • saying that the Catechism is not authoritative, when the Pope so declared it

cross the line into rejection of the Magisterium and of Papal authority.

Hope this helps,

Mary Ann

Please report any and all typos or grammatical errors.
Suggestions for this web page and the web site can be sent to Mike Humphrey
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